Again, if you have a very long run between switches, going a little larger is less likely to cause problems with voltage loss. Lionel made a lot of other transformers over the years. With two switches, you can create an alternative route for your trains. Just like with your track bus and feeders, running an accessory bus of slightly heavier wire to connect to each light or accessory with a smaller feeder is a good plan. There are also numerous static accessories that do not operate but add visual interest to your layout, such as the #24219 girder bridge. The Best Technical and Innovative Podcasts you should Listen, Essay Writing Service: The Best Solution for Busy Students, 6 The Best Alternatives for WhatsApp for Android, The Best Solar Street Light Manufacturers Across the World, Ultimate packing list while travelling with your dog. If they do, follow their recommendations. Great for learning all you will ever want to know about Lionels track system. Wire gauges are coded by their size. Multi-conductor wires with many strands of finer wire are more common for telecommunications and electronics. You don't really need a diagram -- you want to pick your interval (some would recommend as often as 3'), drill a hole down through your base, and connect a wire to a bus which runs beneath the layout and connects to your transformer (obviously, you need two wires, one for each powered rail). This type of transformer is cheap, its reliable, and its easy to find. Frankly, its hard to go wrong with either of these transformers, especially at todays prices. That might work, but it's probably borderline, especially if you are using something like a 1033 transformer that tops out at 16 volts. We feature Lionel, American Flyer, MTH, Atlas O, Williams Trains, K-Line, Weaver Models, and more. He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. Ive written more about the Lionel ZW here. The Lionel Multi-control 1033 is a 90 watt transformer produced from 1948 to 1956. I recently read an article/product review in the OGR magazine for the new Lioneltransformerand wassurprisedto learn that not all voltage outputwave-formsare created equal (pure sine wave versus some type of clipped sine wave). I covered the more common ones, but if you have another vintage Lionel transformer of more than 75 watts and its in good condition, theres no reason not to use it. I use to use one KW for 70 feet of main line, sidings and switching yard entry track. Add a PW dual motor F3 (4 amps) with 5 lighted cars (another 10 bulbs - 1 amp) and you are cooking (9 amps). Sell Your Trains Through an Online Auction Service. Understanding Electrical Supplies and Controls. (Use buss/feeder lines to distribute power.) Should it be a Lionel or should it be an MTH with command control? A starter set is the best way to start with the train hobby. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! Safety first. (Electrical Contractor with dear old Dad for 30 years) Regards Steve. Not wanting to give up, I experimented with an 80 watt modern Lionel transformer and got great results. It was one of Lionel's more venerable postwar products, lasting on the market for 18 years from 1948 to 1966. no it isn't. Three conductor wire is common for household use. The KW has constant voltage outputs for accessories, the ZW don't have that feature just four handles for supplying power to four tracks or accessories if you like, both have whistle & direction feature. Ran 6 motors [MPC's]. Regardless of your scale, all model railroad switch machines fall into one of two categories, a slow-motion electric motor or a "twin coil" relay. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around theentire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. Mike, The size of the transformer is dictated by what you want to run, the more you run the more power you will need. Then power every other one with one of your smaller transformers. RemembertheVeterans. Lionel Postwar 1033 Transformer Watch on Today Lionel includes the same basic track oval in all starter sets8 36-inch diameter curve sections, 3 10 straight track sections, and 1 10 straight terminal section, which create this layout: Until recently, to add to this layout, you would need to buy separate straight, curved, and other track sections and wing it in creating a larger setup. Number 22 solid wire works best on most scales. Used a 1033 for accessories and lights. This drawing illustrates all of the key functionality of a Lionel KW transformer. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. Of all the questions fielded by the staff of Classic Toy Trains, inquiries regarding layout wiring top the list.While you might expect numerous questions regarding complex techniques or new technologies, CTT. I have noticed that my old transformers do not work well or not work at all with newer electronic whistle tenders. With multiple switches, lights, power supplies and more all concentrated in a small space, color coding and neatness pay off. You should always, always test your transformer for safetybefore you set it up, andunplug it when youre not using it. The smallest wire you can work with will be more than sufficient. Many manufacturers assemble cases with special screws to prevent access to the inside and accidental shock. If the transformer fails, you most likely have a short or overload somewhere in the control circuit. An Essential Guide for Toy Train Enthusiasts! Mike to the forum. The locomotives are battery-powered and made of durable plastic. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. If youre looking for Lionel transformer comparisons, youve come to the right place. If you are wiring with a common rail for your blocks, then keeping the common rail the same color all the time while changing the color for the other rail in each block is also an option. The CW-80 Transformer was meant to operate on 120-volt, 60-Hertz power. You could have a poor connection that caused the wire to heat up. Are you running command or conventional? Within that range, it is generally recommended to go for the most robust power supply possible. Actually it was a train show with varied trains of all different eras being run I have mostly MTH trains though and they wouldn't run because the transformer that was running wasn't powerful enough to cycle through my MTH trainsounds. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. If you're looking to only have one loop with multiple sidings then you'll only need 1 source of power for the whole layout. As far as new transformers go, someone else may be able to help more than I can. If the voltage drop in the track is more than a small fraction of the transformer voltage, that is, a volt or two, you are going to have trouble running the trains anyway. I'm sure I'll need more help along the way, so I'll be checking back in with more silly questions! Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following, $12.00 per 12 Months (plus tax if applicable). By continuing to use this site, you indicate you accept these terms. Effort. What about removing flanges from diesel wheels? Fortunately, there is an easy way to tell these cars apart, and the key is the numbers Lionel assigns to them. Then the K's will do siding and switching yard duty. For many first-time train buyers, once the initial excitement of setting up the train and watching it run has passed, the desire to make it do more usually begins. Used 1033's for sidings and the switching yard its self. (using 4 of the 180 watt Lionel bricks) That's 10 amps per channel on all 4 channels. Price Received. Here are a few: --The Lionel Fastrack Book, by Robert Schleicher. The smaller of the two is #12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. I know my train club had an issue with conventional locomotives not running properly on a layout with DCS and TMCC and apparently solved it by replacing a Lionel transformer with an MRC transformer that puts out a pure sine wave. If this happens, you will need another transformer to share the load. Of course, if you happen to have enough Number12 wire left over from a home renovation project to install all the buses on your small layout, it won't do any harm. View More! 40-200 20 Watt DC Transformer - Small DC transformer suitable for powering a single HO diesel or steam locomotive equipped with Proto-Sound 3.0. The larger wire is usually more expensive and more challenging to work with. This conserves the trains' power supply for their needs and makes troubleshooting much easier. Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. Our transformer sizing calculator allows you to obtain the minimum single or three-phase transformer size required based on the load you need to power. Everything you need to get going is included, its reliable, and setup is usually very easy. The new Lionel ZW-L is getting a lot of good reviews and is a very powerful transformer for most layouts. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. You don't want to try to solder even Number 16 gauge wire right to your rails, however. 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, How to Choose the Right Transformer for Your Model Trains, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, HO Scale Track Plans for Model Train Layouts, buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories. These transformers are much cheaper than they were even just a few years ago, but that just makes them a bigger bargain today. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. The two types of cars will connect together just fine, but when side-by-side in a train, they may look a bit odd. I would check yoour connections and wire size, just to be safe. And that means theyre affordable. Heavier insulation not only adds to the cost of the wire but also makes it harder to bend. Model train power falls into one of three categories. Lots of good information for building any size O Gauge layout. But were talking the trains that are in the absolute best condition and might not have ever run on the track. For more realistic operation, you need some kind of speed control (throttle) between the 10340 Automatic Reversing Unit and your transformer. Lionel made these for years and kept them in production under a different model number well into the 1970s because it was a reliable, dependable design and had enough power for a typical starter set while leaving some room to grow. However, in the future if you continue in the hobby and your roster expands you may acquire motive power which requires larger curves than what came with your set. Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers' Henry V. I am a person with a very active inner child. If you're experiencing problems with your wiring due to humidity, for example, you are going to face even greater issues with the trains and tracks themselves. Starter sets almost always include a power supply along with the track and train. A locomotive on a mile-long loop will draw as many amps as it does on a 4x8 platform. Good choices are the Lionel 32923 Accessory Transformer, or another 80-watt transformer like the one included in your set, #14198. I will make a note here. This signifies compatibility with 50 Hertz power. The iconic and legendary 270-wattLionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. I really doubt you will need more than that. Scale cars almost always have the number 7 as the second digit in their number [17623, 27241, etc]. To my knowledge, you should have no compatibility issues with a pure sine wave track feed with any major brand locomotive. American Flyer Trains were made in several gauges. While those locomotives and their sound systems are designed to operate using conventional transformers like your ZW, digital controllers are needed to activate additional features like special sound effects and coupler activation. The Lionel motor is a collection of four electromagnetic plates with a rotating sweeper arm called a brush. To participate you must either login or register for an account. (NEW/LIKE NEW), running TMCC And DCS engines with DCS handheld, terrible crash in Greece, multiple fatalities, Its.Public Delivery Track ..NEWSpecial run corner, Improving Appearance of 0-gauge Tubular Track. They give a true 180 watts and have excellent electronic breakers. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content. Please see our article on Fastrack here for more information. Unless I'm all wet it sounded like there are somecompatibilityissues with certain locomotives versus manufacturer's transformer output wave forms. http://www.lccuk.org.uk/lccuk Regards Nick Save Reply Quote N Nick12DMC Registered Early issues used a Bakelite case while later releases had a case made out of plastic. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! How to open tamper resistant outlets, Xxcopy vs Xcopy: Command line copy utilities, Where to connect the red wire to a light switch, Brains 25 cents: The story behind the meme. White and black are common selections. Not really a how-to-build-a-layout book, but it is a good general introduction to the hobby full of interesting stuff. Lionel has a new 180 watt transformer due out soon that will be a nice upgrade. At fifteen volts which is about as much as I can put to it without jumping the track, it pulls an average of 2.5 amps, or 37.5 watts--less than one tenth of the transformer capacity of 400. Just get a Lionel #12053 Accessory wire set and enough extra wire to connect from the wire set back to your transformer [speaker wire works well]. There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. Take the hint. Older transformers I had this issue with are RW, 1033, KW, ZW.newer transformers were all made by MTH. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. The typ miniature incandecents we use average about 100 ma of current each. Find 500+ popular train rides, museums, and railroad vacation destinations in the U.S and Canada! I have since wired the new transformer to my layout along with the old ZW. The wire can also be purchased as solid or stranded. They are fun to have. To amplify CTvalley's very valid instructions: A forum community dedicated to model train owners and enthusiasts. $2799. Unlimited Members, sign in to enjoy sitewide access. For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. There isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, so you'll need to consider what you want to do and measure your options accordingly. The fraction of your transformer's power lost in the track will therefore be well under 10 percent, since it is proportional to the voltage drop. In three-rail systems, the outer rails are both grounded, and the center rail is "hot.". This is interesting stuff. Most recommend the TPCs over the powermasters The CW 80 will work to begin with. However, there are times when the solid wire has advantages, particularly when soldering in small locations. This comes primarily from the locomotive(s) but also from lights and other accessories. Join Today! Price Received. They run on three rail track. Does Lionel still make standard gauge trains? Are you looking for a product or serviceif so, then read this BEFORE you post! Hello All: Another simple way of doing it, Only load the transformer to 75% of it's capacity, or take your total load & multiply by 125% for proper transformer sizing. 5 years of Classic Toy Trains at your fingertips! Solid wire is preferable as it is much easier to solder to the rails. If you plan to add a second loop for another train in the near future, the 14198 would be a wise investment. This means that they are not exact 1:48 replicas of the real thing but instead are selectively compressed to negotiate the tight turns of regular Lionel track. The chances are that little power supply isn't going to keep the train running over a full mile, however. This will spread the load of your lighted passenger consist across the two transformers. I got a lot of lightweight transformers that came with starter sets over the years. Lionel makes two expansion sets for this purpose. Its expensive, but the same factors that drove KW prices down are also driving ZW prices down. Lionel 1033 90 Watt Multi-control Transformer (102) $9.99 1 bid $16.00 shipping 2d 9h Lionel Type Z 250 Watt Transformer & One 167 Whistle Controllers. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a different case. Lionel uses red and black (red always for the center rail, black for the two outer rails) as a standard in its instructions and most 3-Rail O Gauge layouts are probably wired this way. God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. Past,presentand future. On a large loop of track you will need to have multiple drops, hook-ups, to the transformer because if you only have one hook up the train will get slower the father away it gets from the transformer. Most people start with a pre-packaged train set. Ive talked more about the Lionel RW and the LW as well. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. Use this index to see additional details about the individual transformers issued by Lionel during the post-war period. CW80 Transformer. Obviously, for a lot of people, the $700 Lionel ZW-L transformer is overkill. I suggest that you proactively lay an 10-2 AWG NM cable (or at least 12-2) along the track and tap into it as needed to keep the voltage up. And if the power supply does fail, it is best not to repair it on your own. You can also run Lionel TMCC/Legacy Command Engines using the MTH DCS system with the addition of a Lionel command base and an additional cable. If you want a transformer with power to spare go get a ZW! This is different from the stranded wire in that the different individual wires, each with their color-coded insulation, is placed inside a secondary insulation wrap. How do you choose the right power supply for your model trains? The iconic and legendary 270-watt Lionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. TRANSFORMERS ransformers were issued by Lionel thoughout the Post War period. Steve's rule of thumb for derating is very close to and in the same spirit as the NEC rule that an appliance may not draw more than 80 percent of the current rating of the outlet. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a different case. The multi-conductor wire is also available. Don't just discard your starter set pack, though. The other type of cars are the Scale cars, which are exact or near-exact replicas of actual freight cars. The power supply that comes with these sets is usually a very small wall pack plug-in that cannot be easily expanded. This works for command control layouts too, since those parked trains are still drawing some current. For instance, a 100 kilovolt-ampere transformer with 8.32 kilovolts (or less) on the high side has a typical value of 2.6% impedance. Lionel 1033 Transformer Renovation Part I Peter Fenzel 306 subscribers Subscribe 11K views 3 years ago Lionel 1033 Transformer gets cleaned up, a new power cord, a new whistle rectifier. Which Lionel transformer do I need? you ask? Another classic is the Automatic Gateman. Choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. But a 12-gauge solid wire is one strand, while a 12-gauge stranded wire may be made up of more than a dozen much smaller individual strands spun together. All of the transformers that have more than 90 Watts are in great demand today as more collectors are operating retro-layouts. We're sorry. Also, you must have a built-in circuit breaker to prevent a short circuit from causing permanent damage to the power supply or the trains. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. If your going to run anything more that what came with the set then you should probably upgrade to something a little bigger. Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. --Build a Better Toy Train Layout, by John Grams and Dick Christianson. Everyone wanted the two-handled, football-shaped, 275-watt powerhouse that was the ZW. Lionel Trains|MTH Train|Lionel Train Sets| HO model Trains| G Scale|Dept 56 I have one R transformer from which I run everything - but only 1 train at a time and a few accessories for a layout in a space about 24 by 10 ft. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. Of course, the answer to that question depends on many things. Just not quite as much. (10 lights X . 24v, 120v, 208v, 240v, 480v, and 600v). A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. Lionel developed and perfected its model designs and layouts during the Pre-War Era (1901-1942). Some systems will use bluetooth technology enabling you to control the trains with your tablet or cell phone. Serving these devices with their own dedicated supply will not only allow you to supply them with a proper constant voltage, but it will also free your main power supply to handle the load of the train itself. If you have a very long run, you may want to consider Number 12 wire. Plan on using the KW's for the big layout and 1033's like I did before. I think the RW is a bit better value, but that could just be timing. Number 26 to 20 wire (depending on the length of your bus) will be sufficient for most applications. The next evolution in model train control is radio- or bluetooth-controlled trains. Make your Christmas complete with a Lionel HO Train under your. Problem with Rail King Protocol Sounds reversing unit, My D-190 Back in Action After Move to to NC, Caboose Identification - late era vintage, Continuing Saga Newtown Hardwrare House WIP. Will get a Z4000 one day [this summer probably, unless I find a good deal on an older ZW] just to say I have one. M3103. As the train goes by, the door to the shed opens and a figure pops out, and once the train has passed the figure re-enters the building and the door shuts. The transition section (#12040) allows you to connect conventional O Gauge track to FasTrack. Classic Toy Trains 5-Year Collection 2015-2019 DVD-ROM. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 sheet of plywood, a 90 watt Lionel 1033 or 1042 is an excellent choice. Price Received. This would be more than enough for any single train and a few accessories. Beginners Ask Trains New trains; old transformers. There have been issues with chopped waveform transformers, i.e. You can also minimize voltage drop at the rail joints by soldering the rails together. is always one of the first questions asked when someone starts to build a model railroad. Kind Regards Steve, QUOTE: by Dave Has anyone here ever blown a transformer from hauling a double-headed Allegheny coal drag up a 2 percent grade?. A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life.". --I need a station for the train to stop at. The smaller of the two is # 12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. Digital command control systems (DCC) uses digital information to control the electrical power to the train. By creating alternate routes, more complex loops, and storage tracks, your trains will suddenly be even more interesting to watch and they will begin providing you the feeling that they are going somewhere and that you are running a small railroad. Subscribers, sign in to access exclusive content. Pretty much suffered the same fate, too. Well Mike what I am about to suggest may be a little pricy or at least it was for me but I have managed to buy a new Lionel ZW. Do not use this device if water is present. Forgot about light bulbs since I don't got some yet. I'm not sure I completely understand your question. That transformer will only prolly handle 1 engine and depending on how long it is will depend on how many extra feeders you will need around the layout. A 10 amp breaker and 16 gauge wire would be appropriate for an old ZW. Sell Your Trains Using a Live Auction House. EXPLORE FasTrack 10" Straight Track 4-Pack 6-12032 $ 21.99 FasTrack Grade Crossing with Flashers 6-12052 $ 99.99 FasTrack O36 Curved Track 4-Pack 6-12033 $ 21.99 Legacy AMC-2 Motor Controller All members here are welcome to drop in and visit. If you plan to just run MTH go with their DCS system if you plan to have a number of different engines or the MTH DCS Remote Commander which is limited to running only one engine at a time. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. I'll take this information and run with it to help get me started. You may never use all the amps, but it's usually cheaper to grow into a power supply than to continually upgrade. Lots of good tips for building a layout from two of the most experienced people in the hobby. You can use bus and feeder wires to more evenly distribute the power over your track. It states: 1.25 amps for each motor, 0.2 amps for each bulb. Extending the Reach of Your Power If you like fixing things, fixing an old transformer is rewarding. Viola, DCS on alternate power blocks, Max signal, Happiness. I justhave a very basic 027 set (guessin' mid 80's?). Thanks! This is where the Lionel transformer comparisons should begin. The insulation on the outside of the wire also varies greatly. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. The farther from the transformer the more resistance in the rails and your engine will slow down. As your layout grows so, too, will its power demand. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. JavaScript is disabled. What do I need to do that with? As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. I can remember a time when a Lionel ZW would set you back $275. Members enjoy 15% off any purchase in our store. Dang, this math makes my head hurt. And again regardless of scale or manufacturer, switch machines of these two types will have similar needs and performance. Note that when working with specific products, manufacturers will often recommend a wire size and type. Been there, done that. If you add a lot of track and find that your train slows down as it gets farther from your transformer, you will need to run jumper wires to the opposite side of your track layout. As Paul said, the power needed doesn't have anything to do with the distance; but the voltage needed does. By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. Get the newest photos, videos, stories, and more from Trains.com brands. I know this has nothing to do with Mike's original problem but is more of a reflection on Trainman's reply. I paid $75 + shipping for mine a year ago. If youre comfortable doing some work yourself, you can buy a fixer-upper, and my informational links will tell you more about fixing one yourself. I have a post war ZW and a KW and a Z, all three are good transformers, just meant for differant needs. If you want a spur track to store an extra car or two, Lionel makes another expansion set [#12044] that does just that: Note that this set includes one switch which is the track section that makes the track diverge onto two separate routes. A: According to Lionel's head of customer service, on the underside of their CW80 transformers, starting in late 2009, the vendor applied a sticker that states "QC50" on it. Traditionally, Lionel trains run on AC but there are exceptions. Never Enough Room, Time or Money for all the Trains! editors report that most of the wiring issues they address involve basic principles of electricity - the stuff that Ben Franklin played with when he flew his kite. As the motor takes in more electricity, the arm turns faster and faster. It is best to use at least two different colors for your track wiring (one for each rail).
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what size lionel transformer do i need